“Right now we’ve been living in a society of debt on debt on debt on debt. This is something that cannot be sustained. The current financial system as it is currently constructed, cannot survive in the long term on this type of methodology. So there needs to be a shift and a move to a new type of system for any type of global commerce to continue to exist.”

Nik O

Today on the podcast I had a fascinating discussion about monetary and personal sovereignty with Bitcoin Reserve CEO, Nik Oraevsky.

Nik wasn’t always a Bitcoin OG but his background in traditional finance has helped him to navigate the perilous regulatory environment surrounding the foundation and running of a Bitcoin company. As a result, he has excellent insights into the emerging world of cryptocurrency and freedom tech and indeed how to best protect yourself from the barriers to freedom that he sees coming.

In this conversation, we discuss Bitcoin regulation, the war on cash, the impending bifurcated economy, carbon scores and CBDCs, universal basic income, A.I., prepping, digital nomadism, global citizenship, and emerging governance models. I also get to ask an expert in the field: ”Is Bitcoin necessary for a Free City to thrive?”

Spoiler alert: Nik’s answer might not be what you expect.

Enjoy the conversation.

Automatically Generated Summary

Section Overview: This section introduces the Free Cities Podcast and provides an overview of the upcoming episode.

Introduction to the Free Cities Podcast

  • The Free Cities Podcast is the official podcast of the Free Cities.
  • Hosted by Timothy Allen.
  • Episode number 47.

Busy Schedule in Prague

  • The host is currently in Wales but will be traveling to Prague for a busy schedule.
  • There are 15 podcast interviews lined up, including conversations with New Hampshire Free State Project, Sark, Liberland, Seasteading, and Titus Gebel.
  • Excitement about meeting people at the event and socializing.


Section Overview: This section features an interview with Nik Oraevsky discussing monetary and personal sovereignty, as well as his experience in the Bitcoin space.

Introduction to Nick Orvi and Bitcoin Reserve

  • Nik Oraevsky is the CEO of Bitcoin Reserve.
  • He started in the crypto space in late 2012/early 2013.
  • Worked at various startups, founded an exchange in Canada, and set up an alternative investment fund.
  • Dealing with regulatory challenges and setting up structures within different jurisdictions.

Importance of Setting Up Structures

  • Bitcoin’s regulatory environment is unclear, requiring companies to adapt to changing rules.
  • Experience working globally helped navigate these challenges.

Starting a Brokerage

  • Co-founded a brokerage called Layer 2 Brokers in 2018.
  • Initially focused on high net worth individuals but transitioned to retail clients.

Accessible OTC Concept

  • Aimed to bring OTC (Over-the-counter) trading to a wider audience who may not be aware of its advantages.
  • Highlighting accessibility compared to other platforms like Cumberland that have high minimum requirements and complex onboarding procedures.


Section Overview: The episode concludes with a final message from the host and encourages listeners to enjoy the interview with Nik Oraevsky.

Final Words

  • Excitement about the upcoming conference in Prague.
  • Encouragement to listen to the interview with Nick Orvi.
  • Signing off and looking forward to future episodes.

06:41 Social Media Initiatives and Podcast

Section Overview: The speaker discusses their social media initiatives, including the Bitcoin Reserve podcast, which has been running for almost a year with Andrew as the host. Other team members appear as guests as needed.

  • Started the Bitcoin Reserve podcast almost a year ago.
  • Andrew is the host and CBDO of the company.
  • Other team members appear on the podcast as guests when necessary.

07:01 Evolution of Bitcoin Regulation since 2013

Section Overview: The speaker talks about how Bitcoin regulation has evolved since 2013 and shares their perspective on its current direction.

  • Initially, each jurisdiction had its own interpretation or no interpretation at all regarding Bitcoin regulation.
  • Law firms specializing in fintech and financial regulation were often unable to provide clear guidance due to the lack of unified definitions.
  • There was fear that any advice given might quickly become outdated, leading to legal liability for law firms.
  • Different countries, including Singapore, Switzerland, and parts of Africa, faced similar challenges in defining and regulating Bitcoin.

07:25 Challenges in Defining Bitcoin for Regulation

Section Overview: The speaker explains why it is challenging to define Bitcoin within regulatory frameworks.

  • Lack of unified definition for Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies in the early days made it difficult for regulators to provide clear guidance.
  • Rapidly changing technology outpaced regulatory efforts, making it hard to keep up with new developments.
  • Regulators faced a dilemma between overregulation that stifles innovation and loose regulations that invite potential scams and chaos.
  • Estonia’s experience with low-cost crypto licenses highlighted regulators’ limited technological understanding and competency.

09:15 Difficulty in Classifying Bitcoin

Section Overview: The speaker discusses the difficulty regulators face in classifying Bitcoin within existing legal frameworks.

  • Various jurisdictions have labeled Bitcoin as an asset, currency, security, or even banned it altogether.
  • The fast-paced nature of technology makes it challenging for regulations to keep up with the evolving crypto landscape.
  • Striking a balance between overregulation and loose regulations is crucial to avoid stifling innovation or inviting scams.

10:25 Estonia’s Experience with Crypto Licenses

Section Overview: The speaker shares an example of Estonia’s approach to crypto licenses and its consequences.

  • Estonia initially offered low-cost crypto licenses with minimal barriers to entry.
  • Many companies acquired these licenses, but regulators demonstrated limited technological understanding and competency.
  • An incident revealed that all license holders were included in a single email, highlighting the lack of proper oversight and expertise.
  • Over time, the high number of scams led regulators to realize the need for stricter regulations.

Note: Timestamps are approximate and may vary slightly.

12:28 The Impact of Regulation on Companies

Section Overview: This section discusses how regulation affected companies in Estonia, particularly in terms of increasing requirements and overregulation.

Increase in Regulation Requirements

  • The Estonian government started to increase the requirements for companies operating in the country.
  • These requirements included more paid-in capital, resident directors, a local office, and a local money laundering officer.
  • The regulations were implemented gradually but continued to become more stringent over time.

Negative Perception Avoidance

  • The regulators realized that admitting their mistake and revoking licenses would negatively impact their credibility within the EU.
  • To avoid this negative perception, they chose to implement overregulation instead.
  • As a result, out of the original 3,000 licensed companies, only three remain – two major banks and one company closely associated with regulators.

Challenges Faced by Companies

  • The increased requirements and overregulation made it impossible for most companies to comply.
  • Auditors were not familiar with cryptocurrency-related businesses and struggled to provide appropriate guidance.
  • Major law firms or auditors demanded high fees for audits that were not relevant to the company’s operations.

16:40 Future of Regulation in the EU

Section Overview: This section explores the current state of regulation within the EU and mentions Micah as a potential regulatory framework for virtual asset service providers.

Pause on Regulatory Initiatives

  • Many jurisdictions within the EU have put a pause on their regulatory initiatives.
  • They are waiting for Micah, which is a European-wide regulatory framework for virtual asset service providers.

Note: The transcript does not provide further details about Micah or its acronym.


Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses the European Union’s efforts to create a unified regulatory framework for financial institutions in the EU.

The European Union’s Regulatory Framework (t=1057s)

  • The EU is working towards creating a unified regulatory framework for financial institutions.
  • This framework combines suggestions from various regulatory frameworks and aims to standardize regulations across the EU.
  • Companies that accept funds from clients will need to obtain a unified license for the EU.
  • Currently, companies need separate authorizations in each region they operate in, which can be cumbersome.
  • The unified structure provides clarity for businesses but also presents challenges due to certain regulations not aligning with technology, such as the travel rule.


Section Overview: In this section, the speaker explains the benefits and challenges of having a unified regulatory structure in the EU.

Benefits and Challenges of Unified Regulation (t=1094s)

  • One benefit of a unified regulatory structure is that companies no longer need special authorizations in every region they operate in.
  • For example, if a company has an Estonian license but wants to do business specifically in Germany or Poland, they would need additional registrations and authorizations.
  • However, there are challenges with certain regulations not matching with the technology being used. An example is the travel rule.
  • The travel rule requires recording information about counterparties during transactions, which can be burdensome and incompatible with how Bitcoin works.


Section Overview: In this section, the speaker provides examples of real-world complexities caused by certain regulations like the travel rule.

Real-world Complexities of Regulations (t=1163s)

  • In Estonia, there is a requirement similar to the travel rule where individuals purchasing items with cash must provide personal details, verify identity, and disclose the source of funds.
  • This requirement has led to some businesses in Estonia refusing to accept cash above a certain amount.
  • The travel rule for Bitcoin transactions would require individuals to record transaction details and qualify counterparties, which goes against the concept of financial sovereignty and freedom of transactions.


Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses the documentation and record-keeping requirements imposed by certain regulations.

Documentation and Record-Keeping Requirements (t=1202s)

  • Regulations like the travel rule require collecting and storing documentation related to transactions for a specified period, usually 7 years.
  • However, it is unclear who this information should be sent to or shared with. It is generally meant for internal record-keeping purposes.
  • Similar to keeping tax receipts for a certain number of years, these requirements may not always be practically enforced but are legally expected.


Section Overview: In this section, the speaker highlights how certain regulations are incompatible with Bitcoin’s principles of financial sovereignty.

Incompatibility with Bitcoin Principles (t=1300s)

  • Certain regulations imposed under the umbrella of unified regulatory infrastructure are incompatible with Bitcoin’s principles.
  • These regulations create encumbrances on free transactions and hinder financial sovereignty.
  • There are different perspectives within committees and groups involved in creating these regulations. Some members have deep knowledge of technology while others come from legacy banking systems.


Section Overview: In this section, the speaker reflects on whether the challenges faced in creating unified regulation stem from naivety or other motives.

Naivety or Other Motives? (t=1345s)

  • The challenges in creating unified regulation can be attributed to a mix of factors such as varying levels of understanding of technology and the desire to protect existing businesses.
  • Some individuals involved in the regulatory process may have limited knowledge of new technologies like Bitcoin, while others are focused on preserving their traditional banking systems.


Section Overview: The transcript discusses the concept of a bifurcated economy in relation to Bitcoin, where there will be a distinction between Legacy Bitcoin and gray Bitcoin. Legacy Bitcoin refers to transactions that follow regulations and have all necessary information tracked, while gray Bitcoin refers to transactions with no trace or record. This creates two parallel economies that conflict with each other.

Legacy Bitcoin vs Gray Bitcoin

  • 23:26: Transactions that comply with regulations, have information tracked, and can be easily converted into fiat currency.
  • 23:43: Transactions with no trace or record, making it difficult to convert into fiat currency due to lack of compliance with regulations.
  • 24:17: Difficulties arise when trying to sell gray Bitcoins on exchanges due to chain analysis and high-risk associations.
  • 25:05: The emergence of Legacy Bitcoin economy (compliant) and real-world Bitcoin economy (bartering/trading) leads to conflicts between the two markets.


Section Overview: The conversation shifts towards the potential impact of central bank digital currencies (CBDCs) on the dualistic world of cryptocurrencies. It is predicted that CBDCs will lead to a two-tier society, where CBDCs coexist with different forms of Bitcoins.

CBDC Impact on Dualistic World

  • 26:59: The implementation of CBDCs alongside different forms of Bitcoins would result in a two-tier society.
  • 27:16: Similar to paper gold versus physical gold, there may be a price discrepancy between compliant (Legacy) Bitcoins and non-compliant (gray) Bitcoins.
  • 27:57: There might be a premium on compliant (KYC) Bitcoins due to their utility and ability to transact with anyone, while non-compliant Bitcoins can only be spent with others willing to accept them.

Note: The transcript has been summarized in a clear and concise manner, using timestamps when available.

28:41(t=1721s) Understanding Carbon Emissions and Tracking

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses how carbon emissions are being tracked and integrated into various systems, such as flight bookings and credit card spending.

Carbon Emission Tracking in Flight Bookings

  • When booking flights, carbon emissions are now being displayed alongside ticket prices.
  • Passengers are given the option to pay an additional fee to counter their carbon emissions.
  • Credit card providers have also introduced cards that track individuals’ carbon spending.

Infrastructure for Tracking Individual Carbon Footprints

  • An infrastructure is being developed to track the amount of carbon each individual generates within an economy.
  • This tracking system is connected to Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs).

Voluntary Nature of Carbon Spending

  • Currently, carbon spending does not have a significant impact on individuals.
  • It is voluntary and does not affect transactions or monetary policy control.

Potential Impact of CBDCs on Carbon Spending

  • As CBDCs become more prevalent, central banks will have direct control over monetary policy and transactions.
  • Governments may distribute digital wallets with a monthly allowance but impose restrictions on how it can be spent.
  • Carbon spending will be tracked within these digital wallets.

Implications for Consumer Behavior

  • With the introduction of tightly controlled digital wallets, consumers may face limitations on what they can purchase based on their carbon credits.
  • Consumers may seek alternative means of transacting, such as using Bitcoin or other decentralized systems.

30:52(t=1852s) Shifting Towards Decentralized Systems

Section Overview: The speaker discusses how limitations imposed by centralized systems may lead to a shift towards decentralized alternatives like Bitcoin.

Limitations of Centralized Systems

  • Inflation and stagnant wages may make it difficult for people to afford basic necessities.
  • Governments may offer digital wallets with a monthly allowance, but with restrictions on spending and tracking of carbon usage.

Shift Towards Decentralized Systems

  • Consumers may realize the need for a system that is not tightly controlled by third parties.
  • Bitcoin and other decentralized systems offer more freedom in transacting and may become preferred alternatives.

Potential Challenges

  • The shift towards decentralized systems requires the establishment of necessary infrastructure.
  • It remains uncertain when this shift will occur, as other systems need to be in place for it to become a reality.

32:50(t=1970s) Carbon Offsetting and Black Markets

Section Overview: The speaker explores the potential consequences of carbon offsetting and the emergence of a worldwide black market due to centralized control over carbon emissions.

Carbon Offsetting and Air Travel

  • Carbon offsetting is already associated with air travel, allowing individuals to counter their carbon emissions voluntarily.
  • Adding carbon offsets to flights could be an easy way to integrate tracking into the system.

Worldwide Black Market Potential

  • Centralized control over carbon emissions could lead to the emergence of a worldwide black market.
  • This would create a two-tier financial landscape, where alternative means like Bitcoin become essential for transactions.

33:38(t=2018s) CBDCs: Varying Explanations and Possibilities

Section Overview: The speaker discusses varying explanations regarding Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) and their potential limitations or possibilities.

Varying Explanations about CBDCs

  • There are differing opinions on whether CBDCs can work effectively or face limitations.
  • The speaker does not provide a conclusive answer but highlights the need for other systems to be in place for CBDCs’ success.

Note: The transcript provided does not include further content beyond this point.


Section Overview: The current financial system is unsustainable due to excessive debt. A shift towards a new type of system is necessary for global commerce to continue. Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) are seen as an intermediary solution during this transition period.

The Unsustainability of the Current Financial System

  • The current financial system relies heavily on debt, which cannot be sustained in the long term.
  • There needs to be a shift towards a new type of system for global commerce to survive.

The Role of CBDCs in the Transition

  • CBDCs are seen as an intermediary solution during the transition period.
  • They allow for fine-tuned control over the amount of cash in circulation, both at a national and local level.
  • By removing intermediaries like banks, central control over the economy can be achieved.

Uncertainty Surrounding the Future System

  • It is unclear what the future system will look like after the transition from CBDCs.
  • A dramatically different financial ecosystem is needed to replace the current system that has been in place for centuries.

Arguments For and Against CBDCs

Arguments For CBDCs

  • CBDCs are necessary to prevent economic collapse and buy time until a replacement system is ready.
  • It is hoped that Bitcoin will be ready as a replacement, but currently, it is not prepared.

Arguments Against CBDCs

  • Some individuals prefer living in a world with chaos rather than one with excessive control.
  • Personal freedom and avoiding prolonged suffering outweigh convenience and efficiency arguments made by proponents of CBDCs.


Section Overview: Common arguments made for CBDC adoption include increased efficiency and convenience. However, people’s willingness to adopt depends more on incentives such as Universal Basic Income (UBI) rather than ease of use alone.

Arguments for CBDC Adoption

  • Proponents argue that CBDCs will bring increased efficiency and convenience.
  • They claim that tasks like paying taxes and budget planning will be easier with CBDCs.

Incentives for CBDC Adoption

  • People are more likely to adopt CBDCs due to incentives like UBI rather than ease of use alone.
  • The promise of free money in a government digital wallet can incentivize adoption.

Controversy Surrounding UBI

  • Without UBI, the trajectory of the world could result in significant population reduction.
  • UBI is seen as a way to prevent such outcomes by providing financial support to individuals.

Note: The transcript provided does not specify the language used. Therefore, the summary and study notes are written in English.


Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses the concept of Universal Basic Income (UBI) in relation to the changing job landscape and economic challenges.

The Need for UBI

  • 40:14 UBI is seen as a functional solution to ensure the survival of more humans in an ecosystem where individuals may not be able to generate enough value economically.
  • 40:30 The current system requires some form of support to provide for individuals who cannot generate sufficient income on their own, but this also means controlling them.
  • 40:51 Automation and artificial intelligence are replacing many jobs, leaving a smaller percentage of the population with roles that require human interaction.
  • 41:24 Examples like automated McDonald’s demonstrate how technology is eliminating the need for certain types of workers.

Challenges and Asymmetrical Returns

  • 41:41 Creative pursuits become an alternative for those displaced by automation, but they often result in asymmetrical returns, with only a small percentage earning significant income.
  • 42:16 Studies show that only a small percentage of content creators on platforms like OnlyFans earn substantial amounts, while most earn very little.
  • 42:36 The shift towards creative endeavors creates pressure on society as opportunities become less accessible for uneducated or entry-level workers.

Job Creation and Economic Turbulence

  • 42:52 While new jobs may be created through AI and automation, they may not be as accessible as traditional jobs were in the past.
  • 43:45 Unrestricted money printing, financial warfare, and global economic turbulence contribute to the need for UBI as countries face economic suffering or inflation.

Long-Term Effects and Government Perspectives

  • 44:25 UBI can provide individuals with the space to explore their true passions, but it can also create dependency similar to welfare.
  • 45:11 Governments may view UBI as a temporary solution to delay addressing deeper structural issues in the economy.


Section Overview: The speaker reflects on the challenges posed by automation and economic turbulence, highlighting the need for UBI as a potential solution. However, they also acknowledge the complexities and potential drawbacks associated with implementing such a system.


Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses the lack of control and understanding surrounding the current economic system and its potential fixes. They also highlight the self-interest of individuals in power and the need for a decentralized approach to prepare for a potential collapse.

The Reality of Current Economic System

  • The current economic system is non-sustainable.
  • Similar to the bank bailouts in 2008, short-term avoidance of pain creates long-term structural problems.
  • There is no future where a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC) leads to liberty or positive change.

Prepare for Total Breakdown

  • It is better to prepare for the worst-case scenario: total breakdown of communications, financial systems, and societal norms.
  • Individuals should have local action plans to deal with these challenges in a decentralized manner.
  • Awareness should be raised globally about the need for a new system and the inevitability of chaos before progress.

Control and Bunkers

  • Those in control are aware of instability in the future, leading to the construction of bunkers and underground cities.
  • The decision-makers aim to delay collapse as much as possible while maintaining their own comfort and control.


Section Overview: In this section, the speaker emphasizes personal preparedness for an impending crisis. They discuss acquiring skills related to survival, self-reliance, fishing, farming, and construction.

Acquiring Essential Skills

  • Focus on acquiring knowledge and skills that enable self-sufficiency during challenging times.
  • Examples include spearfishing, growing food, raising cattle, acquiring lumber, and building structures.
  • These skills are crucial for obtaining necessary resources independently.

Importance of Skill Diversity

  • Different techniques are required for successful spearfishing due to fish intelligence.
  • Diversifying skills allows adaptation to various situations and challenges.
  • Skills related to food production, construction, and resource acquisition are essential for long-term survival.


The transcript highlights the lack of control and understanding surrounding the current economic system. It emphasizes the need for individuals to prepare for a potential collapse by acquiring diverse skills and adopting a decentralized approach. The speaker suggests that a new system needs to be created but acknowledges the uncertainty and chaos that may ensue before progress can be made.


Section Overview: The speaker discusses the idea of forming small collectives and acquiring necessary resources to weather potential crises. They also express skepticism about the effectiveness of building personal armies and the challenges of living in remote areas during chaotic situations.

Forming Small Collectives

  • The speaker suggests forming small collectives with shared resources, such as a plot of land for food production and a spear gun for hunting.
  • The purpose of these collectives is to come together in times of crisis and support each other.
  • While they acknowledge that such collectives may not be able to fend off large invading forces, they believe it can help weather local storms.

Challenges of Building Personal Armies

  • The speaker expresses doubts about the practicality of acquiring enough power to build personal armies.
  • They mention that it would require significant resources and effort to form communities with knowledge, skill sets, and trades necessary for self-defense.

Living in Remote Areas during Chaos

  • The speaker shares their experience living on a remote former farm in Wales.
  • They raise concerns about people from cities coming to rural areas in search of food during chaotic situations.
  • They question the feasibility of relying solely on remote locations for safety, considering the potential influx of people from urban areas.


Section Overview: The speaker reflects on their optimism regarding human cooperation even in chaotic situations. They discuss their belief that extreme global chaos is unlikely and emphasize the propensity for humans to voluntarily cooperate with each other.

Optimism Towards Human Cooperation

  • Based on their observations, even during serious events in certain countries, humans tend to try and cooperate rather than resorting to extreme chaos.
  • The speaker expresses optimism that voluntary cooperation among individuals is more likely than people solely protecting their own property or resources.


Section Overview: The speaker explains their perspective on the potential benefits of embracing chaos sooner rather than later. They use an analogy of cutting off an infected arm to illustrate their point.

Embracing Chaos Sooner

  • The speaker suggests that embracing chaos sooner rather than later may lead to better long-term results.
  • They compare it to cutting off an infected arm immediately instead of waiting for the infection to spread further.
  • While acknowledging the difficulty and reluctance in taking such actions, they believe it could be easier collectively for the long run.


Section Overview: The speaker discusses the possibility of people from cities seeking resources in rural areas during upheaval. They also mention a quote about defending what one owns and emphasize focusing on things within immediate control.

People from Cities Seeking Resources

  • The speaker agrees that during times of upheaval, people from cities are likely to come to rural areas in search of resources.
  • They share a quote by Katherine Austin Fitz, emphasizing that if one cannot defend something, it is not truly theirs.

Focusing on Immediate Control

  • The speaker emphasizes focusing on things within immediate control, such as skill sets and building functional economic ecosystems with like-minded individuals.
  • They acknowledge that while having land or possessions is beneficial, they are prepared for potential loss and have alternative plans in place.

57:17 The Emerging Trend of Digital Nomad Lifestyle

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses the emerging trend of the digital nomad lifestyle and how it has gained prominence in recent years. They share their personal experience and reasons for embracing this lifestyle.

Embracing a Different Lifestyle

  • The speaker believes that the digital nomad lifestyle is becoming more prominent.
  • They did not actively seek this life but it came about due to their surroundings.
  • When they got married, they initially had the idea of a traditional family life with a white picket fence, but as life evolved, they realized certain aspects were not aligned with their values.
  • They decided not to send their kids to public schools in Canada or the US and opted for homeschooling instead.
  • Healthcare was another factor that influenced their decision as they wanted access to healthcare providers they trusted.
  • They also found that some of their neighbors were not supportive or connected with them on a personal level.

Becoming Global Citizens

  • Realizing the limitations of staying in one location, they decided to become digital nomads or what they call “global citizens.”
  • Their goal is to live wherever suits them best based on factors like access to good food, knowledgeable locals, and legal infrastructure.
  • By tailoring their lives to be digital nomads, they can move between countries and establish themselves within six months.
  • They mention examples of other people who have successfully lived a similar lifestyle and raised brilliant children who are not overly dependent on technology.

Choosing Locations Wisely

  • The speaker mentions specific locations like Montenegro, El Salvador, Argentina, or Thailand as potential places where they might settle temporarily.
  • They gravitate towards communities where like-minded individuals gather and share similar lifestyles.
  • Despite being in Montenegro where Serbian is predominantly spoken, there is an international community where English is commonly heard.
  • They note that this lifestyle is not accessible to everyone and often requires a certain level of financial stability.

Embracing the Digital Nomad Lifestyle

  • The speaker emphasizes that being a global citizen or digital nomad is not a cheap endeavor.
  • They mention the ability to work remotely with just a laptop, but it requires dedication and effort.

01:00:41 Benefits and Challenges of Being a Digital Nomad

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses the advantages and challenges of embracing the digital nomad lifestyle. They highlight the freedom and flexibility it offers, as well as potential obstacles faced along the way.

Advantages of Being a Digital Nomad

  • The speaker highlights the freedom to choose where to live based on personal preferences.
  • They mention access to beautiful natural surroundings like pretty trees, oceans, and wildlife in different parts of the world.
  • Being able to connect with local communities and access good food are also mentioned as advantages.
  • Establishing relationships with knowledgeable locals who can provide guidance in navigating life in different regions is valuable.
  • Accessing legal infrastructure for necessary formalities is another advantage mentioned.

Challenges Faced by Digital Nomads

  • The speaker acknowledges that predicting how things will unfold in different locations over time is impossible.
  • Uncertainty regarding government actions, treatment by authorities, or changes in jurisdiction can pose challenges.
  • Adapting to new environments frequently can be demanding for individuals and their families.
  • Financial stability plays a crucial role in sustaining this lifestyle, making it inaccessible for everyone.

Meeting Like-Minded Individuals

  • The speaker mentions meeting other individuals who embrace similar lifestyles while living as digital nomads.
  • These individuals tend to be financially secure enough to support such a lifestyle choice.

01:01:52 Conclusion – Embracing Global Citizenship

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker concludes by summarizing their perspective on the digital nomad lifestyle and global citizenship. They emphasize that it is not a cheap or easily accessible choice but can offer unique opportunities for those who embrace it.

Embracing Global Citizenship

  • The speaker reiterates that being a global citizen or digital nomad requires financial stability.
  • They mention that this lifestyle is not accessible to everyone due to its associated costs.
  • Despite the challenges, they believe that embracing global citizenship offers unique opportunities for personal growth and experiences.

Note: The transcript provided was in English, so the summary and headings are also in English.

01:02:25 Living as a Digital Nomad vs Global Citizen

Section Overview: The speaker discusses the difference between being a digital nomad and a global citizen. They explain that while digital nomads have the freedom to move around frequently, global citizens establish themselves in different jurisdictions and have a more transitory lifestyle.

Digital Nomad vs Global Citizen

  • Being a digital nomad allows for frequent movement and flexibility.
  • Global citizens do foundational work within different jurisdictions to establish themselves.
  • Digital nomads can easily pack up and move to another location at any time.
  • Transferring wealth from one country to another can be challenging due to banking regulations.
  • The speaker mentions having their net worth stored in their laptop bag, allowing them to travel freely without relying on physical assets or traditional banking systems.

01:03:57 Challenges of Global Citizenship

Section Overview: The speaker explores the challenges of living as a global citizen, particularly regarding roots, stability, and family dynamics. They discuss how children may desire stability and familiarity, which can be disrupted by frequent moves. However, they also highlight the benefits of close-knit family units that often result from this lifestyle.

Impact on Children and Family Dynamics

  • The speaker shares personal experiences of growing up as a global citizen with constant moves.
  • Lack of roots and stability can make it difficult for children to feel a sense of home or belonging.
  • Changing schools frequently can impact social relationships and interpersonal skills development.
  • On the flip side, frequent moves can create strong bonds within the immediate family unit.
  • Balancing negative effects with positive aspects is crucial when considering this lifestyle choice.

01:06:07 Personal Reflections on Global Citizenship

Section Overview: The speaker reflects on their own experiences as a global citizen and the impact it has had on their sense of home and belonging. They discuss the differences between their own upbringing as a global citizen and that of their grandparents, who had deep roots in one place.

Personal Reflections

  • The speaker’s family escaped the USSR, leading to a life of frequent moves.
  • Growing up without a true sense of home or roots was challenging for the speaker.
  • The constant presence of family became the only stable element in their life.
  • Comparing their experience to that of their grandparents, who lived in one place for decades, highlights the contrasting perspectives on leaving behind familiar surroundings.
  • While being a global citizen can have negative impacts on children’s development, it also fosters a lack of allegiance to any one place.

01:06:41 Balancing Negative Effects with Positive Aspects

Section Overview: The speaker discusses the importance of balancing negative effects with positive aspects when considering a global citizenship lifestyle. They mention personal quirks and considerations for potential future children, weighing the potential benefits against any drawbacks.

Balancing Negative Effects

  • The speaker acknowledges that being a global citizen can have negative effects on interpersonal relationships and social development.
  • They emphasize the need to balance these negative effects with positive aspects.
  • Considering personal preferences and potential outcomes for future children is crucial when making decisions about living locally or as a global citizen.
  • The speaker humorously mentions an unrelated incident involving gender replacement that occurred in British Columbia.

Note: Timestamps are approximate and may vary slightly depending on the source video.

01:07:54 The Notion of Independent Jurisdictions

Section Overview: The speaker discusses the possibility of independent jurisdictions emerging in the future, which would provide stable laws, economy, and governance structure for individuals to freely traverse between.

Possibility of Independent Jurisdictions

  • The speaker hopes that proper independent jurisdictions will emerge as an intermediary step towards a more ideal system.
  • These jurisdictions would have stable laws, a stable fundamental economy, and a stable governance structure.
  • The idea is to have a few cities around the world where individuals can freely traverse between and consider them as their homes.

Advantages of Independent Jurisdictions

  • Having such independent jurisdictions would solve many issues associated with being a pure global citizen and constantly hopping between different jurisdictions.
  • It would provide stability and allow individuals to choose specific locations that align with their preferences.

01:08:18 Challenges in Establishing Long-Term Resilience

Section Overview: The speaker acknowledges the challenges in setting up long-term resilient independent jurisdictions that can withstand external forces.

Challenges in Sustainability

  • While it is possible to see the emergence of independent jurisdictions in the short term, sustaining their growth and resilience against external forces is challenging.
  • Building something that can stand against elements trying to destroy it requires careful consideration.

Defending Established Jurisdictions

  • Once an independent jurisdiction is created, defending it becomes crucial but also complex. The speaker admits not having an answer on how to effectively defend once something beautiful has been created.

01:09:26 Factors Influencing Independence Granting

Section Overview: The speaker discusses factors that might lead to granting independence to certain jurisdictions based on political dynamics and libertarian qualities.

Granting Independence Based on Qualities

  • Some jurisdictions might be granted independence due to the presence of political leaders with libertarian qualities.
  • The rise of new generations with different ideologies and ideas can contribute to the emergence of independent jurisdictions.

Centralized vs Decentralized Power

  • The speaker sees a constant dance between centralized and decentralized power in society.
  • Technology seems to be scaling the decentralized version effectively, leading to the emergence of decentralized ideas and communities.

01:11:18 Rise of New Ideas and Communities

Section Overview: The speaker reflects on how the proliferation of free information through the internet is driving changes in society, leading to the rise of new ideas, communities, and movements.

Information Explosion and Ideas

  • The movement of information explosion facilitated by the internet allows individuals to have their own ideas about what they want for themselves.
  • Exposure to notions of liberty leads more people to come up against forces that oppose it, resulting in new thoughts and desires for change.

Shifting Paradigms

  • The speaker acknowledges that everything we knew, including institutions and formal ways of doing things, has been disrupted by this proliferation of free information.
  • This shift brings both positive and negative outcomes, but there is hope for positive change as more people embrace freedom when given the option.

Note: Due to limitations in available timestamps, some parts may not be covered in this summary.

01:14:43 The Battle for Acceptance

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker reflects on the initial reaction to unusual or extreme situations and how only a small minority questions them. They discuss the emotional and mental battle they faced in maintaining their position during such times. The speaker also mentions family conflicts arising from differing perspectives.

Questioning the Unusual

  • Many people accept unusual or extreme situations without questioning them.
  • Only a small minority recognizes when something is too much or strange.
  • It takes courage to question and resist such situations.

Emotional Battle

  • Enduring extreme circumstances requires an emotional, mental, and physical battle.
  • The speaker personally experienced this struggle.
  • Family members may also be divided over these issues, causing further conflict.

Two-Tier Society

  • The concept of a two-tier society is discussed.
  • During the pandemic, different approaches were taken by individuals based on their perception of rationality.
  • Those who questioned restrictions found themselves in a smaller group.

01:15:48 Navigating Liberty

Section Overview: This section explores how some individuals navigated through challenging times by embracing liberty. It highlights that only a small percentage of people possess the mental fortitude and resources to stand their ground. The idea of accepting freedom as opposed to centralized control is introduced.

Embracing Liberty

  • A subset of individuals chose to embrace liberty during difficult times.
  • Approximately 10% of people seemed open to this perspective.

Mental Fortitude and Resources

  • Standing up for freedom requires both mental fortitude and resources.
  • These individuals possess the ability to resist external pressures effectively.

Two Types of People

  • There are those who can accept and live freely, while others cannot.

Changing Control Structures

  • To create positive change, there needs to be a shift from centralized control to decentralized governance.
  • The speaker believes in the concept of free cities, jurisdictions, and nation-states.
  • These decentralized structures can influence other countries and initiatives.

01:17:09 Decentralized Control Structures

Section Overview: This section delves into the idea of decentralized control structures and their potential benefits. The speaker suggests that a shift towards decentralization would attract more people due to the advantages it offers over centralized systems.

Changing Control Paradigm

  • The current form of control needs to change from centralization to decentralization.
  • A decentralized system of governance and control is desired.

Free Cities and Jurisdictions

  • The concept of free cities, jurisdictions, and nation-states is discussed.
  • These entities could become influential hubs for individuals seeking freedom.

Attracting Others

  • Decentralized control structures would naturally attract others due to the benefits they offer.
  • People would choose freedom over oppression without any additional cost or sacrifice.

01:19:31 Overcoming Centralization

Section Overview: This section explores how decentralization can overcome centralized powers. It discusses the potential impact of decentralized communities, economies, and governance structures on existing control systems.

Network Effect

  • Once decentralized communities reach a certain network effect, they become unstoppable.
  • Proximity to these communities leads others to join due to their significant impact.

Finite Resources

  • Despite common economic models suggesting infinite resources, there is a finite amount on Earth and in the universe.

01:20:18 Shifting Power Dynamics

Section Overview: This section focuses on shifting power dynamics from being subjects under centralized powers to becoming customers with influence. It questions whether centralized powers have an incentive to decentralize willingly or if complete collapse is necessary for change.

Changing Power Dynamics

  • The power dynamics need to shift from being subjects to becoming customers.
  • Currently, centralized powers tend to centralize even more.

Incentivizing Change

  • It is unclear what incentivizes centralized powers to decentralize willingly.
  • Complete collapse may be the only catalyst for change.

Decentralization’s Impact

  • The pace of decentralization and the growth of decentralized structures can lead to a significant impact.
  • These structures attract individuals due to their benefits and resources.

Note: This summary provides an overview of the main points discussed in the transcript. For a more detailed understanding, please refer to the original transcript.

01:20:56 The Ability of Decentralized Systems in a Global Collapse

Section Overview: This section discusses the ability of decentralized systems to thrive in a global collapse scenario. It explores the concept of decentralized ecosystems and their effectiveness compared to centralized control structures.

Decentralization vs Centralized Control

  • In a global collapse, decentralized ecosystems become more effective than centralized control structures.
  • Evolution happens faster than centralized control can combat it.
  • Human beings naturally gravitate towards close-knit ecosystems that interact with each other, leading to decentralization by nature.

Role of Bitcoin in Decentralized Governance

  • Bitcoin is not necessarily required for decentralized governance and jurisdictions.
  • A medium of exchange should match the production capacity and resources available globally, which is challenging to balance artificially.
  • Sound money is essential for a free market economy, but it doesn’t have to be limited to Bitcoin; fiat currency can also serve as sound money if created and managed appropriately.

The Gold Standard and Natural Inflation

  • Going back on the gold standard (equivalent to adopting Bitcoin) may not solve all issues related to the current economy.
  • Using gold or any finite resource as a means of exchange introduces natural inflation due to limited supply.
  • Sound money refers to fungibility, transferability, and lack of intermediaries in monetary transactions.

Deflationary Currency and Economic Expansion

  • Introducing a deflationary currency like Bitcoin can lead to an inflection point where hoarding becomes more favorable than commerce.
  • Pricing mechanisms start favoring hoarding over transferability, hindering economic growth.
  • At some point, individuals may find it more efficient to keep money rather than circulating it within the economy.

01:23:28 Sound Money and Hard Money

Section Overview: This section delves into the concepts of sound money and hard money, clarifying their similarities and differences.

Sound Money vs Hard Money

  • Sound money encompasses fungibility, transferability, and lack of intermediaries in monetary transactions.
  • Hard money is similar to sound money but focuses more on the scarcity or limited supply of the currency.
  • Bitcoin can be considered both sound money and hard money due to its properties of fungibility, transferability, and deflationary nature.

01:25:05 Inflation and Growth in an Economy

Section Overview: This section explores the relationship between inflation, growth in an economy, and the role of a deflationary currency like Bitcoin.

Inflation as Economic Growth

  • Inflation refers to the increase in production capacity and resources available in an economy.
  • It signifies growth in GDP and the ability to provide more for people’s needs.
  • Inflation is not inherently evil but rather a natural outcome of economic expansion.

Deflationary Currency’s Impact on Commerce

  • Introducing a deflationary currency like Bitcoin can shift pricing mechanisms towards hoarding instead of commerce.
  • The inflection point where hoarding becomes more favorable than spending is uncertain but could hinder economic growth.

01:26:22 Efficiency vs Circulation in an Economy

Section Overview: This section discusses the efficiency versus circulation dilemma that arises with a deflationary currency.

Efficiency through Hoarding

  • At some point, it may become more efficient for individuals to keep their money rather than circulating it within the economy.
  • Hoarding prevents economic expansion through payments for goods and services.

Note: Timestamps are approximate.

01:27:05 The Impact of Deflationary Economy on Spending Habits

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses the potential impact of a deflationary economy on people’s spending habits and decision-making process.

People’s Behavior in a Deflationary Economy

  • In a deflationary economy, individuals may become more selective about their spending choices due to the potential for making money from deflation.
  • While people may still buy necessities and essential items, they are likely to be more cautious with their money and avoid wasteful spending.
  • Some individuals are driven by factors other than monetary incentives when making decisions, and they may engage in radical activities without expecting financial rewards.

Risk-taking and Money Hoarding

  • A subset of society is willing to take risks with their capital for high non-monetary returns such as human evolution or significant changes.
  • However, there will also be individuals who prefer hoarding money without taking any risks.
  • This disparity between risk-takers and money hoarders can lead to conflicts when certain individuals accumulate excessive power without contributing to progress.

Incentivizing Risk-takers

  • Having a deflationary currency in the system can serve as an incentive for risk-takers by better distributing resources to them.
  • By financially rewarding those who take risks that have the potential to change the world, society can encourage innovation and progress.
  • Achieving this level of incentivization may not be as efficient with a gold standard or a deflationary currency compared to other alternatives like Bitcoin.

01:31:33 Bitcoin’s Role in Incentivizing Risk-taking

Section Overview: This section explores the importance of Bitcoin within the context of incentivizing risk-taking behavior and its role in distributing resources more effectively.

Evaluating Bitcoin’s Significance

  • The argument presented raises concerns about Bitcoin’s overall role, not just within the free cities model or independent jurisdictions.
  • The speaker acknowledges that as someone running a Bitcoin company, this argument could be seen as a critique of Bitcoin’s importance.

Bitcoin as a Solution

  • While Bitcoin may not be the ultimate solution, it is considered to be a better alternative for incentivizing risk-taking and resource distribution compared to other options.
  • The speaker emphasizes that further research is needed to fully understand and evaluate the potential impact of Bitcoin in these areas.

Note: This summary provides an overview of the main points discussed in the transcript. It is important to refer back to the original transcript for complete accuracy and context.

01:32:58 The Future of Bitcoin and its Evolution

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses the future of Bitcoin and how it may evolve over time. They emphasize that while Bitcoin may not be the ultimate solution, it serves as a critical foundation for future systems.

Bitcoin’s Role in the Global Economy

  • Bitcoin is not likely to be the sole savior of the global economy, but it plays a crucial role.
  • While there are deflationary concerns, other elements of Bitcoin are essential for any future system.

Initial Attraction to Bitcoin

  • The speaker initially got into Bitcoin due to its potential for financial gains.
  • However, they soon realized its social impact and humanistic perspective, which led them to view it as a potential savior for humanity.

Bridging Legacy Economy and Bitcoin Economy

  • The speaker’s company aims to bridge the gap between the legacy economy and the world of Bitcoin.
  • By making it fast and efficient for people to access Bitcoin, they hope to promote adoption and educate others about this technology.

The Next Stage: Something Like Bitcoin

  • The exact form of the next stage is uncertain, but it will likely resemble something similar to Bitcoin.
  • Many argue that certain aspects of Bitcoin cannot be easily improved upon or replaced entirely.

Evolution vs. Supplanting

  • The discovery of digital scarcity and uncensorable nature in Bitcoin was significant.
  • Rather than being supplanted by something else entirely, these discoveries can only evolve over time.

New Layers on Underlying Protocol

  • It is expected that new layers will be built on top of the underlying protocol of Bitcoin.
  • Eventually, these layers may become so complex that they overshadow the underlying protocol itself.

Core Tenets Remain Unchanged

  • While new layers may bring changes and adaptations, core tenets such as decentralization and governance remain essential.
  • Anything that comes after Bitcoin will still require these foundational principles.

01:35:13 The Uniqueness of Bitcoin’s Discovery

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses the uniqueness of Bitcoin’s discovery and its resistance to being replaced or replicated.

A Discovery, Not an Invention

  • Bitcoin is considered a discovery rather than an invention.
  • It combines existing concepts and technologies in a unique way to form something entirely new.

Cannot Be Supplanted

  • Once a discovery like Bitcoin is out there, it cannot be easily supplanted by something else entirely.
  • However, it can evolve and adapt over time while maintaining its core principles.

Comparing to Fire

  • The speaker compares Bitcoin to fire, stating that it cannot be completely replaced but can be improved upon.
  • Just as fire evolved from open flames to gas ovens, Bitcoin may evolve with new layers and protocols.

Resistance to Legislation

  • One of the major selling points of Bitcoin is its freedom from legislation and being an opt-in system.
  • Attempting to legislate or force adoption would go against the decentralized nature of Bitcoin.

01:37:25 The Future Evolution of Bitcoin

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker explores possible future evolutions of Bitcoin and whether it will involve new layers or entirely new protocols.

New Layers on Underlying Protocol

  • The speaker believes that future evolution will involve building new layers on top of the underlying protocol.
  • As more layers are added, the underlying protocol may become less visible but still crucial for functionality.

Similarity to TCP/IP

  • The speaker draws a parallel between Bitcoin’s evolution and the internet’s development with TCP/IP.
  • TCP/IP underpins everything in today’s internet despite vast differences in appearance and functionality.

Core Principles Remain Intact

  • While Bitcoin may undergo significant changes, its core principles of decentralization and governance will remain unchanged.
  • Anything that comes after Bitcoin will still require these foundational principles.

Uncertainty about the Next Evolution

  • The exact nature of the next evolution is uncertain.
  • It could involve new layers on the underlying protocol or potentially a completely new protocol.


Bitcoin’s future lies in its ability to evolve and adapt while maintaining its core principles. New layers may be built on top of the underlying protocol, eventually leading to a system that looks different but still embodies the essence of Bitcoin. However, it is unlikely that Bitcoin will be entirely replaced by something else. Its unique discovery and resistance to legislation make it a powerful force in the global economy.

01:39:22 The Vision of Bitcoin and Fundamental Elements

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of fundamental elements in creating a better version of fire. They mention that while they may not be smart enough to create the vision for what comes next, certain fundamental elements like energy and sound money need to stay in place.

Importance of Fundamental Elements

  • The speaker acknowledges that they are not smart enough to create the vision for what comes next.
  • Certain fundamental elements, such as energy and sound money, need to stay in place.
  • The need for a sound money and decentralized intermediary-less way of transfer is crucial for humanity’s progress.
  • Cash has been used for years, but with the digitization of the world, a new form of money like Bitcoin has emerged.

01:40:59 Bitcoin’s Impact on People’s Lives

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker reflects on how Bitcoin has changed the lives of many people. They express surprise when meeting individuals whose lives have not been impacted by Bitcoin. They also discuss how Bitcoin brings together like-minded individuals who strive for liberty during lockdowns.

Impact on People’s Lives

  • Bitcoin has significantly changed the lives of many individuals.
  • Some people have not experienced any changes due to Bitcoin.
  • Like-minded individuals who strive for liberty during lockdowns are attracted to Bitcoin.
  • Meeting people from different walks of life who share their stories about how Bitcoin was special to them is inspiring.

01:42:46 Belief in Bitcoin as a Tool for Freedom

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker expresses their belief in Bitcoin as a tool for freedom. They discuss how meeting various individuals from different backgrounds reinforces their conviction. The competition between different systems is seen as healthy and beneficial for providing value with the least friction.

Bitcoin as a Tool for Freedom

  • The speaker firmly believes in Bitcoin’s potential as a tool for freedom.
  • Meeting people from different backgrounds who share a common belief in Bitcoin strengthens their conviction.
  • Competition between different systems, such as central bank digital currencies (CBDCs) and other protocols, is healthy and leads to more value with less friction.

01:44:47 Bitcoin’s Role in Building a New Future

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses how Bitcoin brings out the best in humanity and drives progress. They mention that events like lockdowns and pandemics have brought like-minded individuals together. The unifying nature of Bitcoin allows for collective growth and the building of a new future.

Building a New Future with Bitcoin

  • Bitcoin brings out the best in humanity and drives progress.
  • Events like lockdowns and pandemics have highlighted the presence of like-minded individuals who share similar beliefs.
  • The unifying nature of Bitcoin allows for collective growth and the building of a new future.

01:45:09 Personal Aspirations during Sabbatical Year

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker is asked what they would do during a sabbatical year. They express their desire to focus on personal aspirations but leave it open-ended without providing specific details.

Personal Aspirations during Sabbatical Year

  • The speaker is asked what they would do during a sabbatical year but does not provide specific details about their personal aspirations.

01:45:59(t=6359s) Selfish and Altruistic Desires

Section Overview: In this section, the speaker discusses their selfish and altruistic desires if they had unlimited resources. They express a desire to spend a year in nature, working with their hands and experiencing the tangible fruits of labor. Additionally, they mention wanting to help their family and close ones by providing economic resources and education.

Selfish Desires

  • The speaker would spend a year in nature, immersing themselves in every aspect of it.
  • They express a longing to work on tangible projects with their hands, as opposed to spending most of their time in front of screens.
  • The speaker mentions that seeing the immediate results of one’s labor is deeply ingrained in human nature.
  • They specifically mention an interest in Bushcraft activities.

Altruistic Desires

  • With unlimited resources, the speaker would first focus on building contingencies for their family and close ones.
  • They aim to provide economic resources and educational support to elevate them to a higher level.
  • The speaker expresses a desire to educate others and bring about collective growth among humans.
  • Consulting services would be offered to guide individuals on various aspects such as communication, acquisition, thinking processes, and formation.

01:48:00(t=6480s) Enjoying Nature through YouTube Channels

Section Overview: In this section, the conversation shifts towards discussing how the speaker enjoys nature-related content through YouTube channels. They mention watching Bushcraft videos late into the night as a way to live vicariously through others’ experiences. There is also a brief discussion about underground house-building channels.

Enjoying Nature from Afar

  • The speaker admits spending time watching Bushcraft YouTube channels as a way to indulge in their passion for nature when unable to experience it firsthand.
  • They share common ground with the interviewer, who also enjoys watching similar content.
  • The speaker mentions having a woodland area and frequently cooking outside during summer.
  • They express an interest in the tools of the trade, including fixed blades.

Underground House-Building Channels

  • The conversation briefly touches upon channels that showcase building underground houses in Asia.
  • The interviewer mentions one channel where individuals use diggers to construct such houses.
  • The speaker interjects, stating that the original creator of this trend started from scratch and built everything manually.
  • However, they reveal that some channels have taken advantage of the trend for financial gain by using excavators and large teams to expedite projects.

01:50:21(t=6621s) Wrapping Up

Section Overview: In this final section, the conversation comes to a close. Both participants express their gratitude for the discussion and mention their enjoyment of meeting each other. The speaker extends an offer to engage in further philosophical conversations whenever desired.


  • The interviewer thanks the speaker for their time and expresses appreciation for the insightful conversation.
  • They wish good luck with Bitcoin Reserve but acknowledge its already successful trajectory.
  • The speaker reciprocates gratitude and states their availability for future philosophical discussions or pontifications.
  • They hint at a potential part two of the conversation being more philosophical in nature.